Wow! I really believe that Gamepress has some mistakes here
First of all! Why Gyarados is so low??? Honestly I have 2 maxed Gyarados (bite and dragon tail/ hp) and they are very usefull!! Excellent generailst attacker. Much more usefull than blissey and snorlax
Blissey tier 1!!! Are you kidding me??? I believe that the attacking tier list should be affected from the ability to beat strong defenders! And blissey cannot beat the strongest one, herself!! If you want a bulky attacker, snorlax is the one, not blissey
I honestly believe that they underestimate how important is time efficiency (nobody wants to spend 2 hours to take down a gym)
I second that. Gyarados in the form of Dragon Tail/Outrage is just a bad dragonite lacking STAB and a lower attack stat, which is, still pretty awesome.
Gyarados in the form of anything+Hydropump is actually a stronger vaporeon (except the rhydon matchup) but with less bulk.
Any other gyarados...yeah, it's not good. But considering all of these attacking lists are compiled with the best moveset in question anyway,
Lots of top tier pokemon can't beat a higher level Blissey without timing out, so that isn't a good measure. Have you battled with Blissey? My 2600 P/PR Blissey takes out 3 defenders with no dodging, and she isnt as slow as you might think...its not like using a Chansey...that is brutal. The reality is bulk is a big part of it. Tho I agree Gyarados is an elite attacker, if you take away its bulk, what do you have? You have Kingdra. So my question to you is, do you think Kingdra is an elite attacker?
I agree, they valued tankiness way too much imo. If you're looking for the best attackers in the game, it's completely absurd to rank Blissey (or even Snorlax) that much above the likes of Gyarados, Espeon, Rhydon, Flareon, Alakazam and Gengar.
Sorry Gamepress, I love this website but you failed pretty hard this time around.
Agreed.
Gyarados is a great generalist attacker, even with suboptimal movesets like B+DP. Should be in the same tier as Vaporeon.
Blissey is good, but inefficient as it takes a really long time to win. Definitely not tier 1 for me and yeah, I've used my 2868 ZH+HB a few times as an attacker. Good, but not great.
Rhydon is also much better than tier 3+ as it has massive stats and high attack DPS. You just need to choose your battles, just like most of tier 2.
With gyarados there is no matchup where he is the best choice. Just a semi decent generalist attacker. His dragon moves are decent against dragonite, but ice is much better. His water moves are good against rhydon but vape is better. Better used as a high cp defender.
Blissey is a great attacker, she can take out multiple mons before fainting while tanking a few hits in the process, that can't be ignored. Deserves a top spot.
Yeah, kinda odd that gyarados is in tier 3, coz he is definitely no less worse than a vape imho. Even though his quick move isn't STAB, his dps is pretty good and also had reasonable bulk ( as compared to fragile cannons like zams, jolteons, flareons, espeons which are all higher tier than him ).
He is also one of the few elite pokemons that can 1v1 against a same level 30 ZH/DG Blissey ( https://youtu.be/mVg0oON5uBQ ).
I think they also underestimated Ursaring. Manage to recently evolved this teddy with Counter/Hyperbeam and I'm pleasantly surprised on his performance against a fat 3k+ cp Blissey.
Do a comper video of yours with hp vap and gya.
I myself was pleasantly surprise by my recent dt/hp Gya and I'm a vap fan :). But it was vs lick/eq snor and rock Rhydon. And 1/4 at least of a p/hb blissey.
But please do it vs. a zh snorlax and ms rhydon, preferrably with BS or HS and SE rrspectivelly.
Do it with bite and dt please :).
I had an earlier vid ( back in Gen1 ) that compared bite/hp gya vs wg/hp vape ( https://youtu.be/N8VMH-ziAAQ ). Against neutral targets, gya is without doubt faster. Even against Rhydons ( in the last battle ) where water types are SE, gya didn't lag too far behind the vape. Now with DT as primary move, it will be even better and closing the gap further.
I might do some future comparison retest with gya vs vape for the king of water crown again ;)
First complaint to address is about Blissey. Pretty expected, and I was well prepared for this, although there's nothing that you can do if people don't read. In the tier list intro I write:
"Some trainers may value time and therefore would never use a Blissey to attack, while other trainers may be bad at dodging (or be at the mercy of lesser hardware or the dodging bug) and therefore prefer not to use an Alakazam to attack. We hope that you consider your personal priorities in order to make best use of this attacker tier list."
So if you are personally outraged that Blissey is tier 1, too bad, so sad, please don't hurt yourself in your confusion.
Next complaint to address is about Gyarados. The sim results don't bear out the claim that Gyarados is a better attacker than what's listed here. As an actual water-type it's very much outclassed by Vaporeon and as a Dragonite counter you are better off using one of the ice-types on the list (or Tyranitar, or your own Dragonite).
In this tier list's methodology, candidates in tiers 1 to 2.5 are attackers that are in some way the best at something. If an attacker is not the best but still pretty good, it's tier 3+. The only exceptions to this rule that I made were Heracross and Snorlax - Heracross because you want multiple fighting-type attackers in the case of Blissey trains and Snorlax because it's faster than Blissey so not strictly inferior.
Thank you for this list. I find your work to be an invaluable resource in determining the best Pokemon that fit my playing style and the meta in my area. I've followed this site religiously, since I caught my first Dragonite and wanted to understand how good it was. I've read every article and frequent this QA section daily. This site has enriched my gaming experience, For which I am extremely grateful.
Thank you.
I'm in awe of how ungrateful people are. This list effectively encapsulates the current meta for all playing styles. Based on a trainers individual playing style, there can be disagreement. I prefer AT when I battle with my vape, but I understand the rational for ranking HP higher.
It is fine to argue merits, but it is disappointing that there is not more appreciation for the hard work that was put into this analysis.
I take no issue with thoughtful and respectful arguments about tier list. There is in fact precedent for GP listening to this community, and adjusting their perspective based on valid feedback. If you recall, DB/DC Dragonite was initially rated B, then later revised. As was B/Cr Tyranitar.
Anyone that frequents this site knows that a good amount of work goes into these lists. It is an impossible task to make a list that suits all trainer styles. The rationale was stated for the approach that was taken. You can agree or disagree. At this point in the game, we should all have our own lists based on our particular style of play. The GP lists are a good resource to help us challenge our own conclusions.
All the whining and complaining is unnecessary. A simple thank you for your hard work, followed by "did you consider..." or "in my experience..." would result in a useful and respectful dialogue that could benefit the community.
My .02
