GamePress

It's interesting that Gamepress does have different answers but some of the "Rankings" don't make sense even without looking at different data:

According to your chart
Supreme Counters should be: Golem with Rock Only, Vaperon, Omastar... AND Dragonite.

Your "Good" Counters should include Tyrantir for sure. In fact, even without your own data table Tyrantir's high stats + rock resistance + a Rock charge should have intuitively placed it in good category.

The thing that bugs me though is "Golem" listed as a Supreme with Ground Moves vs Rhydon with Ground Moves listed as "good". Rhydon's stats are superior to Golems in every way. So if they have the same moves there is ZERO chance for Golem to be better than Rhydon.

The only reason Golem can surpass a Rhydon is because Rock Throws DPS has enough of an edge of Mud Slaps to make it happen.

Asked by Arak27 years 10 months ago
Report

Answers

Relax, humans run this page :)

Up
0
Down

Oh I get that...

But I also think since this site purpose is to teach newbee players and others, it's okay to have a higher standard.

Golem as a supreme counter should only be RT/SE and should be an easy catch for anyone because with any other moveset it's a poor man's Rhydon not a Supreme.

Up
0
Down

Fair enough, I personally don't get the ground move bit in supreme either, but I guess it is easier to explain, 'Golem is a supreme counter', RT/SE is the best, but if you get MS/EQ it is not bad either, rather than having RTSE in Supreme than MSEQ in good.

In any case, I don't think Golem is supreme to begin with. It is weak defensively and the RT/SE set doesn't provide significant damage boost over WG/HP Vape or DTOR Dragonite.

Up
0
Down

I looked a bit into PokeBattler, and i find your estimation partially right.

Indeed, SE-Tyranitar seems to be missing.

For some Reason, Golem deals 15% more damage than Rhydon - Obviously Rock Throw is clearly superior to Mud Slap.

Dragonite is on the 4th best counter - so it is not surpreme, it is a (very) good counter.

Up
0
Down

Dragonite in Entei-Raid is on following positions, simulated by pokebattler and dependend on the metrics:
4th (time)
9th (strength)
6th (strength and time combined)

[Edit: link]
https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/ENTEI/cp/38628/attackers/attackerLevels/30/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=TIME&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME

Up
0
Down

Downgrade the Omastar b/c legacy and bump up the Dragonite because more likely to have a level 35 dragonite in my opinion.

Up
0
Down

That's pretty close to the Meta list I posted earlier that's on the Legendary Beast Page.

So I have Dragonite "3rd" in my list because I don't count Legacy Omastar.

Up
0
Down

Why not place both Rhydon AND golem (any moveset) as supreme counters?

Up
0
Down

Because move set matters A LOT.

Rhydon with EQ is actually worse than many of the other counters like Kingdra Gary,

Up
0
Down

Ahh I meant any moveset for golem; and looking back I should have put any moveset with "stone edge/ rock blast" for golem.

Wouldn't golem/Rhydon with stone edge / rock blast still work well, or serve as supreme counters?

And I know exactly what you mean about the importance of movesets

Up
0
Down