GamePress

the better counter vs Blizzard kyogre

Me and a guy in my discord have had this multi day argument going on about the better counter when it comes to W/Blizzard kyogre.

Magnazone or Raikou.

I said Magnazone, given very close DPS, but superior tankiness agaisnt the blizzard set due to resistance which the DPS/TDO spreadsheet shows magnazone having the superior TDO) (a situation not that dissimilar from tyrantiar v rhyperior pre rebalance, where the extra tankiness let the tankier mon get off more charge moves, boosting its DPS )

He said raikou with the reason being that his pokebattler list that showed up put raikou above magnazone (image of the photo:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/341417037228146688/526994082971779092/image0.png
)

My question is, which of us is right, as the pokebattler stats done line up with the DPS/TDO spreadsheet stats, are either one of us using incorrect systems? I dont use pokebattler so I dont understand what the screenshot actually means aside from one less magnazone faints

Asked by MetagrossMaxis6 years 3 months ago

Report

Answers

The correct answer should be Magnezone.

That image you provided looks like a raid simulator against Blizzard Kyogre. When you're in raids, DPS matters more than TDO. So Raikou with TS/WC will always top Zone in that situation (As will Electivre as an example). However, if the question was which is the better "counter" then Zone will be the winner as it's Steel typing allows it to resist and take hits from Blizzard.

So you are correct. While Raikou will always do more damage, Zone is the better "counter" since Raikou will very likely not survive a Blizzard.

Raikou's survival against Blizzard is tied to its level. Above the significant bulkpoint it'll tank 1 Blizzard most of the time, below it will die almost every time. Magnezone should be able to tank 1 at significantly lower levels though.

Depends on whether you're talking gyms, raids, or PvP.

PvP, Magnezone is best. Get used to saying that - it's going to be a PvP monster when it hits a game near you.

Raids are all about doing damage fast, and Raikou is a hair better there than Magnezone, but Electivire is a hair better than Raikou.

Electivire is a hair better than Raikou in a vacuum due to its higher ATK stat, but the difference in DPS is often tiny in real situations. If Electivire reaches a higher TS breakpoint, there's a big difference, if not, it's only a few percents more damage from WC. Raikou on the other hand has a significant advantage in bulk, which sometimes matters for TTW, making comparisons between them difficult without relying on sims.

EDIT: PB was set to level 30 for some reason so my initial numbers were off. Electivire and Raikou have almost the same TTW against B Kyogre at L40 BF, but Raikou has more TDO, making it superior.

But what about Magnazone and Raikou, I know that Electivire Is outlasted because raikou has better bulk and the same type.

I wrote about Magnezone and Raikou in another reply below. Just need to point out that it's not as simple as "Electivire is outlasted because Raikou has better bulk and the same type". Sometimes both will die to the exact same charge moves and have identical effective bulk.

Raids arent always about DPS, if it were Tyranitar's massive bulk wouldn't mean anything and yet thats what made it the beast it is.

At lower levels where Raikou can't tank a Blizzard, it's probably Magnezone. Close DPS and much better tankiness generally produces better TTW results.

Raikou at a high enough level to reliably tank the first Blizzard probably takes over as the better counter.

It will not matter if you are fighting in lobbies with crowds in it, because the raid boss will be down in less than 70 seconds in a crowd of 20. You can go in with 6 blissies but you will not get that extra damage ball and as long as you have decently leveled SE counters you will always get 7-12 balls depending on case.