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Best defenders # 5-10

After the 4 normal pokemon, who do you think are the 6 best defenders?

Asked by canbucket7 years 5 months ago
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Answers

Steelix, Milotic, Gardevoir, Clefable, Dragonite and Vaporeon

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I just CTM'd my 2000cp Clefable...it had Psychic...groan...now it has moonblast. I have 7 Mewtwos, all with shadowball...gambling (and often losing) is about all I need CTMs for.

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A 10cp pidgey. Plenny of them have gotten my my daily 50.

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Really the only function of a defender is to annoy the attacker so I agree here. Nothing is more annoying than having to go into a gym 3 times to beat a pidgey

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Going into a gym 3 times to defeat something that doesn't die to a single fast attack is significantly more annoying.

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I once fed a 500 cp mudkip 10 golden razz when a known spoofer was spoofing my gym. Now that's annoying!

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Dragonite (great bulk, good damage, access to Dragon Claw)
Gyarados (Dragon Tail and Waterfall)
Milotic (coverage moves)
Gardevoir (coverage moves)
Vaporeon (great bulk)
Azumarill (trick attackers as a tier 3 raid boss)

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Dragonite is good as it counters Machamp, the most common gym attacker

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I don’t recommend Pokémon with double weaknesses be placed in gyms they are too easy to steamroll through(ofc with minimal knowledge of type advantages)

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Easy to steamroll through if you go through the trouble of picking an ice type to your squad and then changing to it. How many people honestly bother? I know I don't even though I have ice attackers out the wazoo from the old gym meta and from Rayquaza raid prep.

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by Arak2 7 years 5 months ago

My definition of a "best" defender is anything that forces
1) Machamp/Hairy to swap
2) Dragons to swap

Cause really that's all I can do, force you to swap pokemon, or not let 1 of your pokemon beat 3 defenders in a row.

That means for me:
Gardevoir & Clefable are my 2 favorites. Sandwiched in between BSC.

Dragonite, Gary, Eggy, Slowbro all can work too

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Wobbuffet is God

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Wobbuffet is passable if you want low motivation decay but it has less bulk than Tyranitar and worse damage output than Chansey. It really is not that good and should never be put into gyms that have high cp defenders.

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Tyranitar Defense: 212, Stamina: 200
212+200 = 412/2 = 206
Wobbuffet Defense: 108, Stamina: 380
108+380 = 488/2 = 244

Wobbuffet has more bulk base, and Tyranitar has a double weakness.

Also, I was just messing around ;)

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Bulk is def*hp, not def+hp. This is because of how damage is calculated, def is inversely proportional to the amount of damage taken and hp is of course directly proportional to how much damage is required to KO. Summing up defense and hp isn't based on anything and doesn't produce any kind of a meaningful result.
Tyranitar tankiness = 212*200=42400
Wobbuffet tankiness = 108*380=41040

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I was comparing their Defense to Stamina ratio but if you do it like that Tyranitar still takes a back seat because of its double weakness :P

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by hkn 7 years 5 months ago

Since most players sweep gyms with Machamp and Dragonite:
1. Dragonite with Dragon Tail + Hurricane
2. Gardevoir with Confusion + Dazzling Gleam
3. Gyarados with Waterfall + Crunch
4. Slowbro with Confusion + Ice Beam

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My go to mon for gym sweeping is Ho-oh. If your gym isn't fully motivated, this line-up won't bother ho-oh much. If if is, I'll swap in a dragonite for the dragonite, and raikou for the gyarados. If I have a solar beam charged up before swapping, I'll use it and then swap. Swapping mon doesn't seem to slow me down much.

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Wait, which one is the fourth?

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Best defenders after ,,elite 4''?
Number 5 and 6- support duo:
Slowbro C/IB and Tentacruel PJ/HP- good defense type (resist to fire and fighting attacks), good stats, easy access to get high lvl (if someone not want to powerup defenders), and strong attacks. Even when place them in gyms solo, thanks to typing and moveset can easily give high dmg to its own counters (Tentacruel weakness is electric, ground and psychic. Electric and psychic get neutral STAB dmg, when ground is weak to Hydro Pump. Slowbro weakness is bug, electric, grass, dark and ghost. Bug, electric and ghost get neutral STAB dmg from Confusion, and neutral from Ice Beam, grass get SE dmg from Ice Beam, and dark is only real counter, but ,,elite 4'' charge attacks deal SE dmg to dark type mons)
Number 7, 8 and 9- rest of strong defenders:
Steelix DT/C, Milotic, DT/B, Muk I/DP- overfall, strong defenders, but not combine with ,,elite 4''.
If someone curious why i why I don't think so Dragonite, Vaporeon, Gardevoir, Gyarados, Umbreon or any other mon is good defender thats why:
Dragonite and Gyarados- Double weakness= OHKO from charge attack even at max motivation,
Gardevoir- very good fast move and typing, but really poor defense (def and hp) stats and slow charge moves,
Vaporeon and Umbreon- very strong attacks and stats, but water and dark moves are resisted by its own counters (grass and fight).

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You have some good points and I'm definitely a fan of Muk and Tentacruel. However, both Slowbro and Tentacruel get murdered by Raikou without much problem so I would avoid putting them into the same gym.

About the ones you discount as defenders:
Gyarados I agree on since most people have a Raikou nowadays. It's a good generalist anyway and Gary getting fried by pretty much a single WC is not good for Gary. Dragonite is different. Ice mons are completely useless in gyms battles other than for taking down the Dragonite so the attacker is wasting their time bringing in one and changing to it. If they plow through it with a Dragonite of their own (which is what I do) it will put serious hurt on them if they don't dodge all.
Gardevoir is incredibly tanky against its good matchups which is the point, it forces you to switch away from Machamp or Dragonite because it'll last longer than Snorlax against them. Again, forcing the attacker to plan for switches and bring in multiple different types is another way of slowing them down.
Vaporeon and Umbreon. There are a few more factors here. Vaporeon's fast move sucks for defense and Raikou is so bulky it doesn't care about not resisting water. They are both pretty good at wasting your time, but better options exist.

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Your big 4 means Blessey+Snorlax+Chansey and ??
Out of these 3. I think those can be 4 to 10.

Lapras : great HP and med defense. IS is a good defensive move. IB/Surf/HP both are good on defense and water+ice move would make the attackers confused.

Umbreon: Great defense and med high HP. S and DP is good on defense. You will feel annoyed if you dont use fighting type.

Clefable: med high HP. Its great to put it behind Blessey and Snorlax to let the player change their pokemon. ZH can protect it when they face poison type. DG and M can make great damage to Ttar, Dnite and Machamp. P is fast and have SE on Machamp.

Tenterquel: high defense. HP has early dodge window and powerful. Acid is a good defense move. It can resist the fighting moves too.

Steelix: very high defense. HS is a two bar move and quite good on defense.

Venusaur: RL is good on defense. SB is a two bar move and has early dodge window. Venusaur can resist fighting moves.

Slowbro: I think its defense and HP is not bad. Also C is very good on defense. IB is fast and powerful. It can punish Dnite. P has early dodge window and can punish fighting types. WP is easy to dodge but is good to face Ttar.

Gya: although it is very afraid from electric move. It is strong when facing other mons. WF is strong on defense. We also know that how good is HP. Its stats is great too.

Milotic: very high defense. WF is good on defense. S is tricky to dodge and it is a two bar move. HP is med high too.

Vapo: WG is great on attack but poor on defense. HP and AT is good. AT is a three bar move. It can release the move in a short time or use it continuously. It has very high HP.

Amph: high hp and med defense. VS is great on defense. T has early dodge window but is a one bar move. I think Amph is quite bulk and can release charge move before it die.

Last but not least, Muk has high hp and strong moves. Its stats are good and poison can resist fighting moves.

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Good points all around the only one I don’t like is Gyarados as raikou and Zapdos murder it way too easily actually I think most Pokémon with double weaknesses should be kept out of gyms the only exception i think is Exeggutor with legacy Confusion/Seed bomb

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by Dr. T 7 years 5 months ago

Togetic works surprisingly well in disrupting Machamp and Dragonite sweeps. As a Flying Fairy it has double resistance against both Fight and Dragon attacks. Dazzling Gleam with STAB deals decent damage. Extra bonus for Hidden Power of Fairy or Ice typing.

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by Arak2 7 years 5 months ago

If an attacker is going to bring 6 counters vs 6 defenders, it doesn't matter at all what defends. Everything in PMG has a counter.

If an attacker, is going to attack a tower, nothing will stop the attacker short of Golden Rasp on defenders to make them give up.

All of that said, there are a lot of pokemon that can make the lazy attacker who doesn't swap more difficult.

Machamp/Hairy is the number 1 Blissey killer. So forcing Machamp to not start Blissey with a full charge, or swap out right away before getting to snorlax is useful.

Dragons are the number 2 sweepers. Again forcing out Dragons is useful.

Fairy Types do both those roles. Gardevoir and Clefable are ideal for sandwhiching before or after a blissey/snorlax/chansey.

After that it really gets dicey
Water Types: are useful for Ho-ho sweepers. Ho-Ho with fire can resist 4 Gleams in a row I spoke of above. Vaperon, Gary, Tentacruel all have some use here.

Eggy with Conf/Seed and Slowbro with Conf/Ice are both good for not only punishing the Dragons/Machamps they will tempt the Autoselector and even the player to go for Tyrantir. And yet they have a charge move weakness.

Dragonite/Gary once upon a time were all bad double weakness choices. But if you view it as forcing out Machamp/Dragons they actually do well.

I'm not a fan of anything weak to fighting being near a blissey. So Lapras, Umbreon while okay themselves just invite Machamp to take them out along with Blissey.

Espeon is another normal splitter to chase off Machamp.

It really is about stopping Machamp & Dragons & making Blissey as annoying to beat as possible.

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