Anyone else disagree with Dragonite's Moveset Attack Ratings
Dragon Tail Outrage A
Dragon Tail Hurricane B
Dragon Tail Hyper Beam B
Dragon Breath Dragon Claw * Legacy Moveset B
Steel Wing Outrage B
Dragon Breath Hyper Beam * Legacy Moveset C
Dragon Breath Dragon Pulse * Legacy Moveset C
Steel Wing Hurricane C
Steel Wing Dragon Claw * Legacy Moveset C
Steel Wing Dragon Pulse * Legacy Moveset D
Steel Wing Hyper Beam F
I get that Dragontail generates more DPS and More EPS than Dragonbreath.
However, when you look at the Dodge Window of Defensive Moves. There are plenty of cases where you can fit 3 Dragonbreaths or 1 DO in before dodging.
Any time, the attack delay of the Defender is long enough to fit more than twice as many DB over DTs, DB wins providing more damage and more energy.
1 DT > 2 DB
but
3 DB > 1 DT
As such, all the Dragonbreath related movesets need to be 1 tier higher on attack
Answers
I think Steel Wing/Outrage is ranked a bit too high, I would probably say that's a high "C" moveset in my opinion. And I also think DB-DC is slightly underrated (probably a high "B" / low "A" moveset for me), as well as DB-DP (solid "B" moveset).
Overall, it's a pretty good ranking and I think in terms of which pokemon perform the best in particular relevant matchups, the GP ranking is pretty accurate. I would say that DB-DC is still the best "sweeper" in the current meta because he can retain such a large % of his overall HP by dodging everything with relative ease. But DT/O hits like a dang truck, and it's not too clunky to completely negate effective dodging.
Imo both are marginal diffrent. They are pretty much almost exactly the same.
However:
Why would niantic make a previous moveset better, in order to make people continue playing for dratinis the moveset should develop with new moves being better.
Thats just my imo. (im counting on around 10 down votes by nerfed dragonite users).
Also, the ranking doesn't seem to take in to account that dodging with DB/DC reduces damage taken which result in better efficiency. This has been proven through videos comparing dodge all DB/DC vs dodge all/dodge only charge move DT/O. DB/DC has shown that it may take a few seconds longer to feint a defender but was left with much more HP
If I had to take only one Dragonite into battle in a high level gym I would take the DB/DC over the DT/O to take down multiple defenders.
I would not put it out that way.
The effectiveness of dodging depends on what you are dodging?
Compare dodging a low lvl kingler, a high lvl Exeggutor, a high level Blissey.
Dodging kingler would be pointless, more effective to just kick the crap out of it fast in 1-2 sweeps.
Dodging a Exeggutor with confusion (high damage quick attack) would be useful i think.
Dodging a blissey would be a waste of precious time.
Dodgings effectiveness is situation based.
I have a DB/DC and a DT/O Dragonite. Just an hour ago I just prestiged against a 2600 CP Blissey with P/HB. I tested both Dnites. Both are around 2400 CP. I tried dodging only the HB. Each time Blissey was able to pull off 2-3 HBs.
Here's what I experienced. DT/O was very effective with its quick move but I had issues with Outrage. The first round before I knew Blissey had HB I got cremated and got hit with HB during the long cooldown of OR. Second round, I was ready for HB. I quickly charged up the first OR and pulled it off. The second OR was locked and loaded ready to unleash it after I dodge the first HB. I waited longer than I expected for the first HB. By the time it went off I had two OR bars filled. If it had three bars that would have been filled as well, maybe even four because of waiting for that first HB. The observation - I did not get to use OR as much as I wanted to due to the anticipation of the first delayed HB and not wanted to get hit. It seemed inefficient.
DB/DC. I dodged only the HB. Spamming DB and using DCs as soon as possible without fear of getting hit with the HB was pure enjoyment. During the windup and cooldown of HB I spammed DB and also got in a couple of DCs in. Observation - DB/DC very efficient. I used every DC available. The great thing about DB/DC is there is no fear of facing a defender during the first round and not knowing which move set it has. DT/OR needs to be more cautious. This results in not using the maximum amount of OR.
Conclusion - both DT/OR and DB/DC are awesome. But I give the nod to DB/DC due to its massive efficiency. Also, if the Blissey had DG, the DT/OR would have had more of a problem because DG is a multi bar move that would go off more frequently than HB creating a timing issue of OR. On top of that, DNites are weak to DG. This is the real world experience. Data and numbers are great on paper but the real gym experience is the ultimate judge on move sets
Dodging is easy. But you said it yourself "when to release it". That's my point. If you wait for the right time to release a long windup/cooldown move like HB then you are giving up efficiency because you're bar is loaded but have to wait to release it. So basically you're giving up damage given to minimize damage taken. DB/DC doesn't give up damage given because it is fast enough to dodge anything when you see the dodge flash without pausing on the DB spam.
But every experience is different also. A bolder (or more reckless) player could have used all of their Outrages while dodging all the HBs and would have taken down the Blissey faster with more health remaining. Dodging is a mechanic that is independent to the player and can't really be quantified, which is why when lists like these are made they have to just make an assumption that the player is going to dodge all of them.
That's why these Attacking tier lists should be taken with a grain of salt. If running Dragon Claw is going to prevent you from taking a Hyper Beam to the face that you would have eaten running Outrage, then Dragon Claw is better. If you can do it with Outrage, then Outrage is better. In the end, these lists can't reflect what a person is most comfortable with and so it doesn't try to reflect that.
Offense rankings are always more subjective than defense rankings because there's not a feasible metric to account for a player's ability to dodge or account for the energy gained from taking damage (which is reduced when you dodge an attack). It's hard to justify using perfect dodging as a standard considering factors like latency and human error come into play. You'll actually notice Gamepress has two separate rankings: "Typical" (which is based off of how most people play: ignore quick attacks and dodge special attacks), and "Dodge all" (which obviously means dodging everything). Currently the rankings they have are for Offense are "Typical", and they don't have rankings yet for "Dodge All"
As for charge moves, typically 1 bar moves see better rankings on offense because even if they sometimes have a longer duration, its still a quicker use of 100 energy than using three 3-bar moves, which means getting back to more quick attacks and more usable energy production faster. Sometimes the DPS of lower cost moves is much higher to the extent that even spending the extra time using all of them produces more overall DPS.
There's probably also some bias of people wanting their maxed out legacy movesets to still be good :P
In the end, when it comes to offense, it's best to just come to your own conclusions based on your own playstyle while still respecting the numbers, as opposed to living and dying by a tier list.
DB/DC Dragonite is the all-round generalist. Why? He possesses one of the quickest quick move and, what's more important, an very efficient charge move with CD less than 2s.
Why does the latter matter so much? Because with CD < 2s, you can fit a charge move between defender's two quick attacks: perfect dodging is viable for DB/DC Dnite.
He's ready to take down any opponent on the first try.
