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Vaporeon or HC Blastoise

So, I'm fairly new to the high level raiding and wanted to actually build a team for battling Heatran. I don't have much in the way of decent pokemon for this as a lot of mine are Generalists that are not very effective. I'm trying to decide between HC Blastoise and Vaporeon for my last entry. Any thoughts or advice?

Asked by Z3nVi6 years 7 months ago
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If you have one or more, HC Blastoise slightly edges past Vaporeon for both DPS as well as (I believe) TDO. Of course neither are the best option, but both are appropriate for Heatran. Due to the recent changes to super-effective damage calculation, any pokémon with type advantages are more reliable than before.

Best of luck!

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Yeah, I looked at typing, but unfortunately don't have a lot in the way of Ground pokemon. I have Rhyperior with Mud Slap/Earthquake that should help a lot, but didn't get into the raiding until after Groudon had left. :-( Thanks for the help though!

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What's your current list, out of curiosity? It may be that both might serve better.

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Rhyperior - Mud Slap/EQ
Rhydon - Rock Smash/EQ
Vaporeon - WG/HPump or Blastoise -WG/HC
Machamp - Counter/Close Combat
Flygon - Mud Shot/EQ
Nidoking - Poison Jab/EQ

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Just looked at the raid guide and realized I have 3 Swampert with Mud Shot/Earthquake all 96+ IV...Powering those up and getting rid of Vap/Blas, Nidoking, and Machamp. All of my team has double ground moves now...

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Machamp is a good counter to Heatran that'll also be the best counter to Dialga in the future and is still the best gym attacker. It's a good time to power up more of them if you don't have a few already.

I'm basically not going to power up anything because I can realiably duo the boss with a best friend with 1 Groudon and 5 Machamps in my team.

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Disagree on the bet dialga counter, we dont know if gallade could get better moves, theres 3 fighting moves in the game that dont have stats yet, and given what happened with a large number of previous best attackers, machamps not so safe.

Machamp is a ok coutner to heatran, Rhydon on its own is better than it, TDO and DPS wise, same with double ground golem, even slaking out DPS's machamp and earthquake metagross. As gym attackers go, Hi metagross.

Its not the worst thing against heatran, but theres many pokemon better than it.

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No gen 4 pokemon so far has gotten a moveset different from what we already see in the game master. Gallade needs both a new fast move and a new charge move, in a combination that's better than C/DP, one of the best fast moves in the game period and one of the the best non-exclusive charge moves. There's nothing to deduce whether Gallade will get released before Dialga either. You have a small uncertain chance that Gallade is better and the knowledge that Machamp is the best now and will be the best then if nothing unexpected happens. And if Gallade ends up being better, then Machamp will be the second best, so it's far from a wasted investment.

Rhydon is better for Heatran, but Rhydon isn't good for anything else in the near future. Why power up ground that won't be useful after Heatran is gone when you can get the good enough option that'll be applicable to other things as well?

Slaking and Metagross do not out-DPS Machamp, not even nearly. Neither shows up in the top 24 counters, whereas Machamp is #9. There are exactly 8 better pokemon better than Machamp against Heatran and all of them except Groudon, Kyogre and Rhyperior have more much more narrow usefulness than Machamp. Those three on the other hand require valuable resources that Machamp does not.

tl;dr Machamp is a potential cost effective option that's worth consideration. It's not the best and I didn't say it was the best. But it is cost effective.

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Again with this?

Like hous said, we don't even know if we'll get Gallade before Dialga comes out. I remember you making this argument a long time ago about how Lucario would upstage Machamp and we saw how that turned out. As far as we can tell, Gallade will end up the same way and I'm not gonna tell someone to hold of on using the current best fighting type based on a huge maybe.

Also worth noting, at level 35 Machamp currently has the lowest TTW against most of Dialga's movesets (Hariyama beats it at MC/TH) and has the lowest # of trainers required against non-DM movesets, which Hariyama beats it at again. Upping the level to 40 Machamp trades places with Breloom in a few instances but still comes out on top a majority of the time.

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Oh look Maxis is back to taking any opportunity to talk shit about Machamp for some reason

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