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Is this really how bad Ground is?

I just played around with a few dialga sets, and saw that Machamp and Groudon were surprisingly very close in DPS (all Draco meteor sets I believe machamp beats it). I hadn't realized that i'd had the weather set to "Clear" not "Extreme" (was playing aroudn with how high the DPS could get on heatran before leaving for a giratina raid)

I dont know if this is more a testament to how good machamp is or just how bad ground is. I really cannot beleive Ground is that bad offensively, that a legendary needs weather boost just to be even with a nonboosted legendary when effectiveness is the same.

Asked by MetagrossMaxis6 years 9 months ago

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Ground is that bad, something we've been saying for a while now. Earthquake is god awful, the whole typing needs a re-balance alongside ghost.

I agree. Though given Precipice blade's groudon will be a beast and the fact niantic knows they'd make a SH*T ton of money from it because of how good it is, they likely wont.

No, they likely will, when they need a boost in the game. When people get bored with the same old same old, and stop playing, they will put it out there.

Ground is the second wort type offensively (fairy is the worst because it has no quick move.) Mud slap is a weak move and Earthquake is very mediocre, with less DPS than dig. The only respectable ground move currently in the game is drill run and nothing notable learns that.

That's why Solar beam is a more useful choice on Groudon.

Lets hope precipice blades comes out soon, and isnt nerfed.

Ground is shit. Bug is shit (usually). Poison is shit. These three need bumping up. (I would add Ghost, but for Gengar and Mewtwo).

Steel is just recently not shit.

Bug's ok, its just the stats on the bugs are trash most of the time, look at how good Scizor and Pinsir are, its just the rest are trash. Similar applies for Poison, all beign either the glass cannon gengar without a poison fast move or Muk, who's tanky and low DPS, perhaps Roserade will fix that.

The others I agree on, Steel always had potential wit Dialga and Doom Desire Jirachi, but that was all future locked. I'm suprised they didnt bump up ghost because of giratina, niantic must know how we are with tanky legendaries

Lick, Shadow Claw, and Shadow Ball are all good.

Hex is borderline almost okay, and could do with a small boost.

All other ghost moves need massive improvements.

Yes, the ghost charged moves consist of Shadow Ball (very good) and 4 flavors of awful. DPS*DPE paints a clear picture.

Shadow Sneak - 26.12 (Giratina is saddled with this one)
Night Shade - 27.70
Shadow Punch - 28.52
Ominous Wind - 32.94 (aka Ghost Fart)

Shadow Ball - 66.66

Shadow Ball is more than twice as good as the next best option, and all the other moves are pretty close, all very bad. For comparison, some non-ghost charged moves:

Solar Beam - 66.11
Overheat - 64.00
Sky Attack - 64.00
Wild Charge - 62.32
Outrage - 62.06
Dynamic Punch - 59.99

Shadow Ball edges out all these canonically great moves by a little. In fact, the only moves better than Shadow Ball are the Weather Ball moves from Castform, the starter CD moves, Doom Desire, Meteor Mash, and the uber moves Precipice Blades and Origin Pulse. In that sense, it's the strongest general move (one that goes to multiple pokemon) in the game.

All that said, Shadow Ball makes the rest of the Ghost moves look very bad. Something in the 50's for DPS*DPE, I could live with. Half, that's useless.

Nothing wrong with the moves of Bug and Poison, they just generally don't have the stats, let alone the combination of getting the good moves with the good stats. Roserade is a notable exception, its neutral damage with double poison is between BB Charizard and Mamoswine.

actually Bug moves are slightly bad. The quick moves are fine but they are geared towards EPS and not DPS, while the charge moves are underwhelming. They need better charge moves or better DPS quick moves to hit average

There's nothing wrong with Poison indeed

I remembered Bug Buzz being better but you are right, the charges are underwhelming.

The bug type has always been screwed over in Pokemon. Offensively It's weak to seven types (including fairy, which is bizarre considering the fairy type was introduced to help balance out the meta.) It only has one pokemon with legendary tier stats. (Genesect.) And many bugs are part flying; in the main games bug and flying is the worst possible pairing.