Q: I've never witnessed anyone trolling someone by not attacking.
A: First of all, thanks for giving me the idea to explain. Here's my answer. I suppose you are an urban trainer. These kind of stuff can't happen in those areas. Because there are so many trainers. Someone is going to kick you out. Actually, you'll have a very hard time staying in the gym for 8:20. But in the rural areas, there are very few trainers. These stuff happen in these areas. And here's a point, you may have never witnessed it, but you can understand that it's very very possible. Ok, maybe not very very possible but definitely possible.
GamePress
Fix The Gyms (Re-modified)
If you still think this is very long, skip to paragraph 3 and please try to understand the points (with patience).
Yesterday, I proposed some ideas about fixing the gym system. Personally, I thought everyone was going to support it but unfortunately most readers hated the wayyyyyyyyyyyy long speech. Now, I've cut off all the introduction and explanation to just give you the ideas:
1. Change the coin collection system. Many trainers have requested for the collect button to return but I think I have a better idea: After your Pokémon has defended a gym for 8 hours and 20 minutes, it stops collecting coins. And at the end of the day (12:00 am or 00:00), it sends the 50 coins(or less if the Pokémon started defending after 3:40 pm or 15:40) to its trainer. And after that, it starts collecting coins again. Untill it is kicked out, it'll keep sending 50 coins to its trainer everyday. And finally, when it gets kicked out it returns to its trainer with 50 coins(or less if it is kicked out before 8:20 am or 8:20).
This way, the funny revenges and the begging for destruction stops forever! And more importantly, gym defense starts making sense. It's simple- the longer your Pokémon stays in the gym, the more coin you get.
2. Every Pokémon MUST have an equal rate for motivation decay. The motivation decay rate should not depend on the defender's CP.
This is an easy way to make sure that both high CP Pokémon and low CP Pokémon can be good defenders.
3. The Pokémon which does higher amount of damage to the attacker(s) will lose less amount of motivation.
This will make sure that trainers use some Pokémon which pound on the attacker instead of always using the time-wasters.
4. A defender Pokémon can only recieve 1 golden berry. Once it has recieved one golden berry, no trainer can feed it any more golden berry. However, every Pokémon can recieve unlimited amount of other berries
I think this doesn't need explanation.
5. Change the gym positioning system. I mean the placement wise gym position is good. But use the system in reverse. The Pokémon which goes in a gym first will get the top gym slot, not the one which goes in last! It's simple- the earlier you entry, the higher slot you get.
Well, most of the times the trainer who beats up the gym goes in the gym first. And I think that the guy who beats up the gym deserves the top slot.
6. Untill now, everything I've written is going to be pretty much undisputed. But this one is going to be controversial. So Niantic, this is not a demand. This is an idea and I would like you to just give it a thought. So, basically it's optional. Here goes; instead of 6 gym slots, bring back 10 slots. And....... bring back the CP-wise positioning system. Wait, wait don't scream already, hear me out first. Bring back the CP-wise positioning for just the top 3 slots. So, the 3 highest CP Pokémon will be in the top 3 slots and the rest of the slots will be determined by placement. So, if the gym attacker (who put the first Pokémon in the gym) puts a very low CP Pokémon in the gym, he is most likely to get the 4th gym slot.
I think this will be a good change to the gym system. Currently, there is almost no value of CP and IVs. Though CP is not a valuable value but it is still a value. And I personally think that CP should have some importance. And since only 3 of the 10 slots are determined by CP, the whole system will not be CP-based.
If you want explanations go to https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/q-a/pokemon-go-social-movement-fixthegyms . Feel free to comment and suggest. I'm going to answer some questions in the comments.
Report
Answers
Q: #3 directly contradicts #2.
A: Well, I want the motivation decay rate to not depend on defenders CP. Because low CP is not an achievement. But when a defender does damage to an attacker, it is an achievement. So, I wanted that Pokémon to be rewarded by losing less motivation compared to the defenders which just wastes time and doesn't do damage to the attacker at all.
Q: If a Pokemon can earn more than 50 coins from sitting in a single gym, then berry feeding will increase.
A: Well, I already spoke about limiting the golden berries. As for the other berries, nobody including spoofers have unlimited berries. Sooner or later, they'll run out of them. And if you can attack fast, chances are that spoofers will not get a chance to feed necessary amount of berries. Pokémon can't eat berries while they're battling. And you know what, berry-feeding is a problem but Pokémon getting stuck in gyms for no reward is a bigger problem. Since berry feeding has become a part of the game, I don't think Niantic will remove them. But solving the coin problem is very important. So I hope you can understand.
1. I don't actually see what could go wrong with this. It does not make any sense that you need to get kicked out to get coins and update gym defense progress. I think it makes sense as long as the 50 coins per day limit stays.
2. I disagree wholeheartedly. Your suggestion obsoletes every low cp defender that currently have their own niche and reduces the variety of the meta. Most low CP pokemon simply would not be good defenders if they didn't have the advantage of low motivation decay.
3. This is a great suggestion but Blissey needs to be accounted for in some way since it's by far the defender with the greatest defending damage. But any change that gives a bit more power to defenders like Dragonite, Espeon etc that punish the attacker harshly hp-wise is good in my books.
4. No need to limit it to 1 GRB period. You can't keep a pokemon at full motivation with remote feeding normal berries. Maybe 1 remote fed GRB limit per 30 minutes, 10 limit from gym range per pokemon. Or let every player feed 10 from gym range so the possibility of active gym defense stays alive.
5. Wouldn't be opposed to this as it doesn't break anything, but unfortunately it still doesn't fix the problem of shaving, just changes who gets shaved.
6. I think you need to realize that your opinions are not universally accepted by everyone and stop assuming that things you write will be undisputed. But I like this one and I don't think I've heard it suggested before that only some defenders would get CP sorted. I think I would enjoy this and so would most people who liked the old gym system or played heavily in it.
5. When paired with 1, this is a nearly perfect idea.
2. Chanseys and Shuckles will start crying.
3. Not exactly good, just use Sucker Punch + Focus Blast Gengars instead of Machamps against the common defenders that don't have ZH. Longer fight, but receives less damage. Also, Shuckle smiles here.
4. Wtf? 10 berries limit per trainer and effects can decay while being fed multiple times, basically everyone at a high level doesn't need to revive their main Pokémon.
6. Good, but too complicated to implement.
Shuckle is actually not a good low cp defender. So little hp that the high defense doesn't matter. Level 40 Shuckle takes 13 seconds to defeat with a level 30 Machamp. Go with level 20 Chansey or Wobbuffet if you want a sub-1k defender that's even remotely annoying.
Neither would it be a good attacker if motivation loss depended on damage dealt to attacker, because it would be abysmally slow and get KO'd against most defenders anyway due to the nonexistent hp pool. Dodging all with high defense mons like Lugia might become meta though.
1. The game desperately needs this change. It makes no sense that a Pokémon has to be kicked out to earn coins. And it is ridiculous that a Pokémon can only earn coins for 8 hours and 20 minutes. And I agree that your idea is better than bringing back the collect button.
2. Well, I have a personal conflict about this one. It's hard to understand if it will be good or bad.
3. I agree. Good defenders should have good survivability and it should do some damage as well. However, this change might Snorlax a better defender than Blissey. And the defense stat may become a little more relevant than before.
4. Golden Razz Berries should be limited but not to just 1.
5. Makes sense.
6. Would be very nice if it happens. A bit complicated though.
But I don't understand how you're going to make it reach Niantic. Maybe you should somehow make sure that Trainer Tips see this page. I don't know..............
These suggestions would most certain improve the gym system.
It would be interesting to see how they would affect a "battle situation". Especially before Exraids we use to have fierce battles among the teams.
Today the situation is unfortunately rather unbalanced. With more than 2-3 defending players it is almost impossible to take down a gym, no matter how many attacking players you have.
A good balance between gym attack and defense would improve the game a lot. The challenge is to make it work both in high intensity urban areas as well as in rural areas with little overturn.
About the Golden Razz issue. While I admit it's annoying it's not terrible. It is limited (maybe the 10 Grazz limit should extend to all trainers). I feel that if you cannot defeat a single defender 23 times in 30 minutes then you really shouldn't be allowed to take over the gym. (maybe they need to cut the useless pre-battle animation time down too).
"(maybe the 10 Grazz limit should extend to all trainers). I feel that if you cannot defeat a single defender 23 times in 30 minutes then you really shouldn't be allowed to take over the gym."
This. Multiple people feeding is the problem since that incentivizes multiaccounting and can easily make soloing the gym impossible. I also agree that it's good for there to be something to overcome that is possible, but that lower level players might not necessarily be able to do.
"(maybe they need to cut the useless pre-battle animation time down too)"
With a high level Machamp, even a slower phone user can get the 21 wins needed against Blissey (timer starts from the first berry, so only 9*2+3 wins are needed). But it might be a nice quality of life update to make the animations skippable by tapping the screen.
Point 1 basically means you never have to battle a gym again. Every trainer will have one pokemon in a gym, and if there's a peace treaty then nobody needs to be kicked which means people will get 50 coins a day for doing nothing.
Not really reading the rest of your post cause this single problem destroys the rest unfortunately.
1) I don't like that defeat is rewarded; but rewarding only defense was a major problem with the old gym system. A better solution would be to reward gym activity. Total all the gym points at midnight and use that as the basis for coins. That way, attacking, Berry feeding, defending, placing, and raiding should all be considered.
2) Yes. I'd take it a step further and decrease the amount that CP decays with motivation.
3) Indifferent. Don't think it necessary but wouldn't hate it.
4) Only if there is some other method of active defense. What's the point of golden berries then?
5) Definitely!
6) Spots 7-10 shouldn't come for free but there should be some way they can be earned with increasing difficulty. That being the case, gym ordering should reflect that difficulty.
Gyms are too easy to take down providing almost no challenge.
Did you consider a suggestion to "boost" pokemon HP in gyms like they are in raids? Imagine if the pokemon were all boosted like Tier 1 raid bosses. It would require players to enter with a strategic set of 6 pokemon to take them all out, and it would really add value to pokemon with high defense (as they should be great gym defenders). Not sure how it would work with decay...
