Venusaur PvP IV Deep Dive

Venusaur is getting another Community Day in Pokemon GO. Saturday January 22nd 2022, from 2pm to 5pm local time, is Bulbasaur Community Day Classic. This event gives us another opportunity to get Frenzy Plant on Venusaur, Shadow Venusaur, and Mega Venusaur without using an Elite TM. Given Venusaur’s power in Great League and Ultra League PvP, this a great chance to evolve a Venusaur and Shadow Venusaur with Frenzy Plant, possibly with premium PvP IVs.

When it comes to PvP IVs, the general rule of thumb is to pursue the high Stat Product (SP) iteration of the Pokemon (low Atk, high Def/HP). Of course, there may be important Atk Breakpoints (the point in which your Fast Move does 1 extra damage per hit) that are worth pursuing. To help you better navigate these complex PvP IVs, below is the Venusaur PvP IV Deep Dive. This Deep Dive encompasses both Normal Venusaur and Shadow Venusaur’s PvP IVs in both the Great League and Ultra League. For completion, Mega Venusaur is discussed as well.

If all of this sounds confusing to you, check out this PvP IVs Simplified video.

Venusaur has 2 different flavors in the Great League: Big Bulk and Slight Atk/Froslass Slayer.

For the Slight Atk/Froslass Slayer, it isn’t 100% clear how much Atk is enough but 122.5 is likely “safe” for most Froslass. 124.4 is a reasonable upper limit for Froslass Atk , so going above that can better ensure Froslass Charge Move Priority (CMP). Having CMP can enable wins vs Froslass in the 1-1 and 2-2 shield scenarios (2-2 requiring at least 122 HP) and give you CMP against opposing Venusaur. 

To add, the 122.5 Atk weight also gives Breakpoints against Mew (122.44), Serperior (122.4), Unovian Stunfisk (122.14), Jellicent (122.07), and Swampert (121.25). So not only will a slight Atk weight give you an advantage vs Froslass, it can also help out against other Pokemon too. 

The Froslass Slayer doesn’t mind having super low Def, but here are some Def Breakpoints all Venusaur should be aware of:

• 116.4-118.51, Shadow Claw Mew
• 116.95-121.13, Galar Stunfisk
• 117.88, Trevenant
• 123.22, Bastiodon
• 120.78-124.49, Obstagoon 0-1
• 123.78+ (basically Max Def), Hex Jellicent 0-1, 1-2 (possibly unchasable Def)
• Max Def, Shadow Nidoqueen? (probably not happening)

As for HP checks, 122 is relevant for the Froslass 2-2 shield scenario and 123 enables the Dewgong and Lapras 2-2 shield scenarios. 

Meeting the various Def Breakpoints while getting CMP on Froslass while also having Froslass countering HP is nearly impossible (only 12 of 4096 IVs can do it), which gives credence to still evolving and using a Big Bulk (high Stat Product) Venusaur, despite the Atk weight’s advantages. To add, most of the Atk weight’s advantages help vs non-Kanto Pokemon and the larger 123 HP stat helps vs Dewgong and Lapras, suggesting that a Big Bulk Venusaur may be a better choice for the Kanto Cup format. 

Great League Venusaur IV Tables

• Froslass Slayer + Ok Def
• Froslass Slayer + Big Def
• Big Bulk (121.13 Def and 123 HP)

For the most part, Shadow Venusaur only cares about HP in the Great League. If it has at least 123 HP, it doesn’t have to worry too much about Def. Aside from Charge Move Priority for Froslass and other Venusaur (and technically Dedenne for the 1-2), Atk isn’t a big deal for Shadow Venusaur either. That said, if you start to thrift on HP, Def could become important. 

The relevant HP checks are as follows:

• 123, Charm Alolan Ninetales 2-2
• 122, Lickitung 2-2
• 121-122, Meganium 1-2
• 120-122 (likely 122), Vigoroth 2-2
• 121, Hypno 1-0 potential and Wigglytuff 1-2 and 2-2
• 120-121, Scrafty 0-0, 0-1, and 2-2, Greedent 1-2, and Ice Beam Azumarill 0-1
• 119, Mirror Shot Ferrothorn 1-0 potential
• 118-119, Deoxys Defense Form Rock Slide only 1-2, Swampert 0-1, and Psychic Umbreon 1-0 potential

Many of the above HP checks have a slight range to them as Venusaur will be taking Charge Move damage in many of the above scenarios. If Shadow Venusaur’s Def is low enough (or the opponent has a high enough Atk), it’ll take 1-2 extra Charge Move damage, suggesting it would need 1-2 more HP to make up for it. How much Def is enough isn’t 100% clear, but most lower limits are consistent with 119-120 Def. 

To add, if you have 121.9 Def, you won’t need a high HP stat to overcome most Charm Alolan Ninetales as you’ll get a Def Breakpoint. Same with having 120.46-122.04 Def for Wigglytuff. So if your Shadow Venusaur doesn’t have high HP, it can make up for those Charm matchups at least through its Def stat. 

Great League Shadow Venusaur IV Table

• Big Bulk

The above table features the ideal Shadow Venusaur PvP IVs. While there are 326 featured IV spreads, there is a high chance that you may not have any of them. If you don’t, try dropping the Def and HP lower on the table to a level that you’re comfortable with to give yourself a wider range of options. Shadow Venusaur still has advantages over Normal Venusaur, even if it doesn’t have premium IVs. 

Megas can be used in private Trainer Battles but cannot be used in GO Battle League, yet. Pokemon GO did state that Megas may (emphasis on may) be added to GBL in the future. Given that this is an opportunity to get a Great League sized Frenzy Plant Mega Venusaur without using an Elite TM, it could be worthwhile to evolve one now just in case.

Mega Venusaur has a lower Stat Product than Normal Venusaur, which suggests that it could be worse than Normal Venusaur in more situations. That said, Mega Venusaur has a significantly higher base Atk and Def which means it can hit Atk and Def stats that Normal Venusaur cannot. 

As far as matchup advantages go, it appears that Mega Venusaur has a stronger Venusaur, Obstagoon, Nidoqueen, Shadow Nidoqueen, Dewgong (1-1 only), Jellicent, and potentially Bastiodon matchup. Remember how Normal Venusaur can maybe get Def Breakpoints on Shadow Nidoqueen and Jellicent? It’s no problem for Mega Venusaur. 

The ideal PvP IVs for Mega Venusaur haven’t been explored well, but Mega Venusaur will want at least 105 HP in order to overcome Froslass in the 2-2 shield scenario. Why 105 and not 122 like Normal Venusaur? Mega Venusaur’s larger Def stat gives it a near guaranteed Def Breakpoint on Froslass, reducing the Powder Snow damage it takes.

High Atk Mega Venusaur could be considered as well, as it gets Breakpoints on XL Bastiodon (129.71) and Trevenant (131.8). For Bastiodon, this could flip the 1-1 if their HP is low enough. For Trevenant, this enables 1-1, 0-1 and 1-2 shield scenario wins.

Great League Mega Venusaur PvP IV Tables

• Froslass HP
• Bastiodon and Trevenant Atk

These probably aren’t the “best” IVs, but if you happen to have these IVs to evolve for a Great League sized Mega Venusaur, why not merely evolve them now for later?

Venusaur has 3 different flavors in the Ultra League: High Atk/Galar Stunfisk Slayer, Big Def, and Big Bulk.

Unlike GL’s Froslass Slayer, UL’s Galar Stunfisk Slayer is 100% reliable at the job because Galar Stunfisk caps out at level 51, meaning its stats are guaranteed. With a 159.2 Atk stat, Venusaur gets a Frenzy Plant Breakpoint enabling the 0-0 shield scenario. By having at least a 157.25 Def stat, you avoid Stunfisk’s Mud Shot Breakpoint, enabling the 2-2 shield scenario. If your Venusaur has both, Galar Stunfisk is going to have a miserable time against you. 

The Frenzy Plant Breakpoint is reminiscent of Ultra League Trevenant’s Seed Bomb Breakpoint on Galar Stunfisk too. The poor little bear trap just can’t catch a break with these PvP IVs.

The 159.2 Atk for Galar Stunfisk also encompasses Breakpoints on Gallade (155.99-160.85), High Def Raid IV Cresselia (158.07), Venusaur CMP, and Swampert CMP (0-1 potential). While these Breakpoints and CMP gains don’t flip 100% even scenarios most of the time, they can be helpful and are 100% free in Venusaur’s quest to slam dunk on Best Buddy Galar Stunfisk.

While the Galar Stunfisk Slayer looks like all you need, there is credence to having a greater Def and HP stat. 

Important Def Breakpoints include:

• 157.25, Galar Stunfisk 2-2
• 160.82, Raid IV Obstagoon 0-1 and 2-2
• 158.05-160.69, Gallade 1-1 potential (w/156 HP)
  • Also potentiates reaching a 2nd Frenzy Plant vs Shadow Gallade
• 158.82-160.81, Goodra 1-1 potential

Important HP checks include:

• 156-158, Greedent 2-2, Shadow Snorlax 1-1, Charm Alolan Ninetales 0-1 potential, and level 40 Toxicroak 1-1
• 158, Galvantula 0-0 and non-Brave Bird Sir Fetch’d 1-2
• 152-153, Gyarados 1-2

For the Stunfisk Slayer, only 2 IV spreads can meet the Atk and Def while reaching 156 HP. In order to have more options, 152-153 can be seen as a good minimum cut off. This range is not only good for Gyarados, but running a variety of HP “stress test” simulations revealed 152 is the cut off before Venusaur starts losing to a handful of Pokemon with a variety of IV spreads in a variety of shield scenarios (trust me™). 

The higher Def and HP gains suggest that there can be advantages to fielding a non-Galar Stunfisk Slayer (such as beating high Atk weight Obstagoon or beating Greedent). Just remember that the big Atk weight isn’t just for Galarian Stunfisk. 

Ultra League Venusaur IV Tables

• Galar Stunfisk Slayer
• Huge Defense
• As Good as Rank 1 Bulk

Shadow Venusaur has some good Atk Breakpoints in Ultra League PvP. This doesn’t suggest that there is no value in building and using a low Atk/high Bulk Shadow Venusaur in the Ultra League, but that having a specifically high Atk weight with enough Bulk has measurable benefits. Considering we don’t have many opportunities to catch Shadow Pokemon, getting either a high Bulk or specific Atk weight Shadow Venusaur is fortunate.

These are the relevant Atk Breakpoints in order of importance:

• 161.59, Roserade
  • Poison Jab 1-1
  • Bullet Seed, 0-1 and 1-2
• 159.95, level 40 Toxicroak 2-2
• 158.74, level 40 Nidoqueen 1-1
• 162.33 Magnezone 2-2

Having a higher Atk weight can also get Shadow Venusaur Charge Move Priority (CMP) on other Venusaur and Swampert. While you might not think you need CMP on Swampert, it could be the difference between taking 30-86% damage, spending a shield, or just winning the CMP tie. 

Relevant Def Breakpoints include:

• 152.28, level 40 Shadow Abomasnow 0-0 (w/153 HP)
• 152.6-154.82, Typhlosion 1-2 (w/153 HP
• 154.86, level 40 Lapras 2-2
• 159.27, Galvantula 2-2 (w/155-156 HP)

Observable HP checks include:

• 156-158, Obstagoon 1-1
• 157-159, Empoleon 0-0 and 0-1
• 153, Shadow Snorlax 1-1

Overall, hitting any of the Atk Breakpoints with at least 153 HP is all you can really hope for with a Shadow Venusaur in the Ultra League. If you do have any of the other stat checks, then that’s awesome! If you have a scenario where you’re debating between Roserade Atk with super low Def and 156 HP vs level 40 Toxicroak Atk with level 40 Lapras Def and 153 HP, it’s up to you to decide which matchup advantages matter more to you.

Ultra League Shadow Venusaur PvP IV Table

• General Blend
  • Roserade Atk, Shadow Abomasnow Def, 153 HP

Given the inaccessibility of Shadow Pokemon, stats and IVs not featured in the above table are still acceptable. For example, this guide’s author’s best Shadow Venusaur option is the 15/6/15, which has an abysmal 149 Def stat which makes its 156 HP stat perform like its 153 HP. It’s not “bad” just not “ideal.” You can see the true stats of your Pokemon using any PvP IV website or calculator, including PvPoke.com itself to help determine which Shadow Venusaur you should go for.

As in the Great League, Mega Venusaur has a unique Atk and Def weight compared to Normal Venusaur which gives it access to higher Atk and Def Breakpoints. Unlike the Great League, Mega Venusaur doesn’t appear to have any significant/obvious matchup advantages over Normal Venusaur. Between Mega Venusaur’s assumed lack of advantage along with the time crunch, we didn’t nail down any important PvP IVs for Ultra League Mega Venusaur. That said, it could still be mindful to evolve a Venusaur to be an Ultra League Mega Venusaur, just in case the future comes and Megas are allowed and some matchup advantages are uncovered. 

Community Day Classics are a great opportunity for players to finally obtain or “upgrade” their Pokemon with Community Day exclusive attacks without having to spend an Elite TM. For many trainers, Bulbasaur Community Day Classic will be the first time they’ll get to experience using Frenzy Plant Venusaur in Trainer Battles. Hopefully this trend continues (and a pattern develops so we can get our Deep Dives out sooner rather than later). 

One Frustrating aspect of this Community Day however is the timing. If your Shadow Bulbasaur doesn’t have Frustration removed already, you can’t evolve it with Frenzy Plant. To remove Frustration from a Shadow Pokemon, you have to use a Charge TM during a Rocket Takeover Event. The Bulbasaur Community Day Classic is on 1/22 and the next Rocket Takeover Event is on 1/24. Between this and similar Frustrations with Walrein Community Day, hopefully Pokemon GO listens to the Community’s grievances and makes Community Day Events that feature Shadow Pokemon more accommodating to players.